Walt Miller
Not much fun. One GAF pilot said that trying to attack a B-17 formation from behind was like “trying to make love to a porcupine that is on fire.”
“A typical interception in the fall of 1942 has been described by Johannes Naumann, at that time the an Oberleutnant in II/JG 26. The Gruppe was ordered to attack the bombers on their return flight as there was no chance of reaching them on their bomb run. The B-17’s were flying in a staggered formation at about 26,000 feet. The Focke Wulfs finally struggled up to 27,000 feet, only to see the American formation receding into the distance. The speed of the FW 190’s at that altitude was only a little greater than that of the bombers…No bombers were downed; none had even suffered visible damage.”
—Top Guns of the Luftwaffe p. 125 by Donald L. Caldwell.
“The size of the heavy bombers and their formations could not be adequately described to a green pilot; they had to be experienced first hand…The bomber gunners opened fire as soon as a target was seen, in order to disrupt or ward off attacks. The Americans’ browning .50 inch machine guns had a higher muzzle velocity and a greater range than the Germans MG 17s whose tracers were used to site their MG 151 cannon. So the fighter pilots cockpits were surrounded by red tracers, “Swarming like wasps” in Borris’s words, long before they themselves could open fire effectively; and because of low closing speeds, this extremely uncomfortable situation could continue for several minutes…some plots would invariably break away prematurely, and the rest would pass through the bomber formation at whatever angle and orientation promised the best chance of survival.”
—— ibid p. 126
“All four of the bombers shot down by JG 26 came from the 306th Bomb Group. The Geschwader lost only one pilot in this battle, but it was a serious blow to the unit. Hptm. Fritz Geisshardt, Kommandeur of the third Gruppe, was hit by return fire on his unit’s first pass through the bombers. Bleeding profusely from a wound in the abdomen, Geisshardt dove away from the the battle and made a smooth landing …his blood loss proved fatal; the medical personnel at the Ghent hospital could not save him and he died early the next morning.
—-ibid p. 159
"Against 20 Russians trying to shoot you down, or even 20 Spitfires, it can be exciting, even fun. But to curve in towards 40 Fortresses and all your past sins flash before your eyes. And when you yourself have reached this state of mind, it becomes that much more difficult to have to drive every pilot of the Geschwader, right down to the youngest and lowliest NCO, to do the same."
Hans Philipp in a letter to Hannes Trautloft, 4 October 1943. Philipp was KIA 4 days later, possibly By Robert S. Johnson, during a raid on Bremen.
The elite 303rd Bomb Group in contact with the GAF.
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ReplyDeleteI doubt the B17 gunners felt like they were doing anything other than swatting at hornets, but from the German pilot s comments our guys were giving as good as they were getting.
ReplyDeleteMy dad was a B-17 pilot with the 447th and flew 35 combat missions over Europe--
ReplyDeletehttp://www.447bg.com/
I need track down a book that I once checked out from a library. Among other things, it was full of first hand stories from both sides. One that I recall--
A German fighter pilot was transferred from the Eastern Front to the West. He remarked later about seeing the American bomber stream for the first time--"My God, our own formations for Hitler's birthday never looked that good. And they came on. Always, they came on.
Tail End Charlies?
DeleteI’ve always admired the bomber stories. Those guys clanked when they walked
ReplyDeleteNever having heard much about their side of it, that was fascinating. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI guess that’s why they liked attacking from the front of the formation
ReplyDeleteTrue, after trial and error, the luftwaffe fighters discovered very few guns (for a while) could be brought to bear when attacking head on. Further the luftwaffe learned B 17s could take a great deal of punishment and still keep flying. So the fighters were given heavier armament, including bombs to bomb the bombers. To take the B 17s down. All this proved a huge disadvantage when the B 17s began to fly with fighter escort.
DeleteSixth grade teacher was a bombardier in a B17. Had a chunk of fragment that landed right next to him after tearing through the fuselage. He recalled dropping bombs on tank units.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, my great uncle went down with the Bismark.
One of my uncles was shot down in a B-17 in, I think, 1944. He was a waist gunner and spent the rest of the war as a guest of the Luftwaffe. He was a superb shot with rifle or shotgun, regularly breaking 97 out of 100 on the skeet range.
ReplyDeleteNemo
Below is a link to a very good book about a B-17 pilot who was shot down over Belgium, hidden for about six weeks by the Belgian Resistance, smuggled to France and there hidden by the French Resistance before making his way towards the "sounds of the guns" and the American lines. He was a local guy as is the author. The name of the book is "Fallen Fortress" and it was written by Tom Bartlett.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.amazon.com/Fallen-Fortress-Tom-Bartlett/dp/0578151278
I've always winced when I hear the term 'Flying fortress". True they were when compared to the RAF bombers, more heavily armed, but the "fortress's" "walls" were just a couple of millimeters of aluminum. Just how light these airplanes were was driven home to me at an airshow many years ago. A B 17 was parked and just 4 men were needed to pick up the tail and pivot the ENTIRE airplane around.
ReplyDeleteNo doubt the Luftwaffe found the B 17 formations daunting, but that doesn't mean they didn't/couldn't tear into the formations with devastating effect as demonstrated by the Schweinfurt–Regensburg mission, a case book study of what could possibly go wrong, going wrong. If I remember my history correctly, after that disaster, raids into Germany were suspended until the bombers could have fighter escort.
Last, the Luftwaffe pilots ending up KIA in this post. Again, if memory serves me well, the Luftwaffe either couldn't or wouldn't rotate its pilots out of combat as the U.S. air force did, making it in the words of Hemingway, only a matter of time before "the percentages" caught up with them.
We saw what the Germans did to keep their soldiers fighting. It wasn't pretty. I think they failed to rotate out pilots simply because they couldn't. When you undertake a war to fight all the rest of the world, they're going to outnumber you and if it involves Americans they're going to out innovate you too.
ReplyDeleteYes and no. Henkel had an operational jet aircraft as early as 1937 I believe. Full development into military application was delayed due to infighting between henkel and messerschmitt over who would get the contract and Hitler's tunnel vision. Had this not stood on the way the Luftwaffe could have had let aircraft as early as 1952.
DeleteLikewise with the Strumgiever (?) , the ancestor to all modern assault weapons. Development and supply of such was delayed again by Hitler, much to the relief of the Allies.
Many years ago I worked with a German who'd emigrated to America as a kid. He had been Hitler Jungen very young. He had some interesting stories, you bet, which I might tell. One day a group of us went to the Boeing Museum of Flight, housed in what was the Red Barn, Boeing's original design factory; great place to go if you are in Seattle. There was a mural of a B-17 raid painted on a wall. The point of view of the artist was from one of the aircraft in the formation, nonetheless there were aircraft above that p.o.v. My friend, by now in his 60's (this was c. 1989) stood admiring the artwork. He then walked right up to the mural, leaned over and turned his head as if looking up at the bombers. "Ja," he said, "that a B-17, alright!" And he knew from having seen them from that angle. Good guy, long gone now.
ReplyDelete