Someone posted a comment mentioning Patton and reincarnation in the last post. Most of what I knew about Gen. Geo. Patton growing up came from stories from a few veterans and the 1970 movie classic Patton. I was probably in my mid-thirties when I read Patton: A Genius For War. The book really opened my eyes and made me aware of a several inaccuracies, myths, and lies regarding the very complex and often times misunderstood General Patton. One of the things the movie did get right was the General's belief in reincarnation. It was not just George Patton who believed this, but most of his immediate family. The Patton's would regularly commune with dead relatives. Seances were a regular practice, but not a necessity. The story of Patton and his outfit pinned down on WW1 battlefield when he credits his dead Confederate ancestors appearing out of the clouds mounted on horseback for urging him to get up and lead the charge forward for getting him and his men out of pickle (plus many other like instances). I found all of this very interesting and still read most anything of interest regarding the General and/or his family. I tried to go back and find an interesting story I once read about Patton who had taken some foreign military dignitaries to a nearby Washington CW battlefield for a tour. During the outting, Patton abruptly stopped the tour guide and corrected him (seems like it was correction of which hill was occupied during the battle). The tour guide asked, "how do you know that Sir?" to which Patton replied, "I was there". A very old gentleman in the tour group who was a veteran of that battle chimed in and said, "what he is saying is right. I was there too". I think this was in the 1920s. I did a quick Google search and found this:
In the 1920s, a story circulated about General George Patton correcting a Civil War battlefield tour guide, with a veteran present who confirmed the guide's inaccuracies, which Patton then corrected.
Here's a more detailed account:
- A story exists of George Patton, a future World War II general, interrupting a Civil War battlefield tour guide in the 1920s.
- The tour guide was allegedly giving inaccurate details about the battle, and a veteran who had fought in the Civil War was present to confirm the guide's errors.
- Patton, known for his military knowledge and sharp wit, reportedly stepped in to correct the tour guide's inaccuracies.
- The veteran present, who had actually fought in the battle, is said to have confirmed Patton's corrections, adding weight to the story.
- The Story's Circulation:
- This incident, or variations of it, has been recounted in various historical accounts and articles, becoming a part of the folklore surrounding George Patton,
My best friend's father was a member of a tank crew in Germany during WWII. He never spoke about it directly, only occasional bits of wisdom; like never sleeping in your sleeping bag be either on it or under it - just in case you need to move quickly. When he died, they found 3 silver crosses with his stuff in the attic. That generation was certainly bad ass.
ReplyDeleteSomewhat Related Off-Topic:
ReplyDelete.
a)
The Biscari Massacre of surrendered POW Italians and Germans, directly ordered by President Roosevelt to General George S. Patton and General Omar Bradley.
"The second defense raised by [Sergeant] West's counsel was...he was simply following the orders of his commanding general, who he testified...announced prior to the invasion of Sicily 'prisoners should be taken only under limited circumstances'."
.
b)
That tragedy followed Patton's massacre of World War One American veterans peacefully stating their grievances against the Hoover Administration.
Among the dead families were babies and children, with over a thousand American veterans permanently disabled from poison gas.
General Douglas MacArthur stated he was just following orders, the same defense used by then-Major Patton.
.
Facing our current army of forty million ILLxGxLS, I think we can anticipate similar levels of unthinking hatred and barbarity.
.
.
I strongly recommend reading SUPERMOB by Russo.
Everybody lost in those wars, except the [group we cannot criticize].
Don't know a lot about things in your story, but my father did serve under Patton in the 3rd Army at the Battle of the Bulge. My father never talked much about his service but he did admire Patton and the ways he led his troops.
ReplyDeleteI had an uncle that was in Patton's 3rd Army. He never talked about WWII until I got back from Desert Storm. He pulled out a 1940ish bottle of cognac and told me all about Patton and his part of WWII.
ReplyDeleteI admire Patton but the Bonus Army thing troubles me
ReplyDeleteMight I suggest that in the first place, it's best not to use soldiers to do a cop's or politician's job, but once you do, don't act shocked or horrified at the results.
DeleteNot a history or Patton buff but I just read Killing Patton. I highly recommend it. ET in Dixie.
ReplyDeleteI’ve read/heard we fought for the wrong side, Patton may have thought so as well.
ReplyDeleteIke and McArthur were part of the bonus army raid as well.
As usual, just following orders.
DeleteYears ago one friend suggested stormin Norman Shwartzkoff for President. Another friend a veteran who achieved the rank of Colonel who became an excellent lawyer in civilian life said Bad idea!! He explained that career veterans are basically socialist in nature. He explained that they have been living for free off the goobermint tit their whole life. Yes, I had a major wake-up THAT day.
I worked with a retired Army LT Colnel, 24 year career, he said the Army is a socialist organization. That stuck with me.
DeleteDid read of an incident when Patton was near the front and came across a shell hole filled with empty rations cans, boxes, and other detritus. The General got very upset and ordered a very battle-weary grunt to clean out the hole, saying, "We're her to liberate this country, not litter it!" The soldier had his orders but seemed to be unclear about some of the specifics. So, he pulled out a hand grenade, pulled the pin and tossed it into the shell hole. Well, it was all assholes and elbows to get out of the blast zone. The grenade exploded and crap rained down all around. In the end, the shell hole was cleaned out, as ordered. Apparently, Patton had good humor about it and the soldier was not in trouble.
ReplyDeletePatton did the same thing during WWII in France. The group he was a part of was near an old Roman battlefield, & Patton mentioned where the night camp was. The local who was asking as guide seemed surprised, and congratulated Patton on his study of the area in question, to which Patton replied that he hadn't studied it; he had been a centurion in the Legion that had been there.
ReplyDelete--Tennessee Budd
I believe I read that too. He asked a local driver to take him to a theater and he did by driving just a few blocks. Patton informed the driver there was a misunderstanding had gave the man directions. The driver ended up several miles from the town at the ruins of a Roman amphitheater. When he complimented Patton on is knowledge of the local history, Patton informed him he had "been here before", I was there as centurion, etc.
DeleteThe General and other family members were eccentric in their core beliefs when compared to peers at least in their practice/beliefs of dreams, premonitions, visits from lost relatives/souls, etc. all the while being devout Christians.
Jeffery
ps: What happened to the "bonus army" was rotten and a black mark on Patton and others responsible, regardless.
“ ps: What happened to the "bonus army" was rotten and a black mark on Patton and others responsible, regardless” - yes, and when I see,read or hear about (WO)MEN just following orders it pisses me off.
DeletePatton bragged on my Uncle’s, twins both medics, unit the 45th infantry claimed they were some of the toughest fighten sumbitches in the war. Lot of natives in the unit including Brummett Echohawk a Pawnee Indian. He saw one of the twins and a fellow native executed 3 days after Anzio by an SS officer. Got a blessing several years ago to meet Brummett and talk for a couple hours he told a cleaner version of the execution. Brummett’s pencil sketch of my uncle and Quick Bear are in a book.
Patton wasn't that good. Apparently, a lot of armored officers later said he didn't know the first thing about tanks. He got a lot of men killed for no good reason at Metz and Hammelburg.
ReplyDeletePS If Patton thought we fought for the wrong side, it would be important to remember a lot of people were worried the Bonus March was another March on Rome.
PPS Patton told the story about how somebody took a potshot at MacArthur, Ike, Patton, and a few other officers at the Bonus March. Everybody hit the deck.
Everybody except - wait for it.
MacArthur. Patton said he never felt so humiliated in all his life.
Mac was a hack. He failed to implement the war plans in the Philippines on Dec 7-8, 1941, in spite of radio warnings, then serially insulted the Aussies, insisted on returning to the Philippines when they had no strategic value by mid-1944 just to satisfy his ego, then later was strategically surprised first by the North Korean & then by the Chinese in the same year (1950), and finally getting fired for insubordination.
DeleteWhen MacArthur informed Truman that he was "too busy" to meet with him in DC forcing Truman to fly half way around the world to have a discussion, Truman should have fired him on the spot. Trump should have done the same with Gen. Milley after Milley refused to draw down troops in Syria, as ordered, during Trump's first administration.
DeleteI'm rather surprised that Truman didn't fire Mac. The reason he didn't was because Truman believed that Mac was more popular than he was, although the facts of Mac's service in WWII belie the legend created by Mac's staff.
There's a series of books written by W.E.B. Griffin about a fictitious bunch of Marines, loosely based on the events of WWII, where Griffin described MacArthur derisively as Dugout Doug and his staff as some of the biggest prevaricators in the history of the Army.
One of the best parts of Patton, the movie, IMHO, was painting Monty as the twit he was in real life. Monty should have been fired at least three times during his tenure as a commander during the war. Apparently, Churchill thought he was a great general.
Nemo
In the late 19th Century, Col. John S. Mosby (the Gray Ghost) visited two other former Confederate officers then living in southern California. They spent time entertaining the nephews of his hosts with stories of cavalry tactics of The Late Unpleasantness. That nephew was George S. Patton, Jr.
ReplyDeleteIn combat Patton did things to keep his enemies confused or off balance, so take some things he said with that in mind. Irish, I read your blog each day. Thank you. Joe Roy..
ReplyDeletePatton didn't think we were on the wrong side.
ReplyDeleteAfter defeating the Nazis, he wanted to put Germans back into into tanks to go fight the commies.
He was against fascism and communism.
Roosevelt, of course, sided with Stalin over everybody else so that attitude was not appreciated.
patton never said we fought on the wrong side. he witnessed the strategic bombing of german civilians and said we were fighting the wrong people. as in, the army is out there and we're wasting time bombing people who aren't fighting us.
ReplyDeletethere was a book written in the 1930's called "the progressive case for strategic bombing" that stated that by bombing civilians in the rear areas in large enough numbers, you not only eliminate any production that would be going to the front, but it breaks civilian support for the leadership and ends the war faster than bombing the front lines.
every time it's been tried, it doesn't work. but people keep trying it. the end result of this doctrine was hiroshima and nagasaki. those didn't break the will of the japanese either.
Patton was a poser. Not a great general , look up Battle Metz. Patton was all about Patton.
ReplyDeleteFunny how everyone can base their picture of a man and reality of another time based on one story or anecdote. I find it interesting to get old and see the second and third order effects that went into play based on actions that are completely misinterpreted by the shallower observers. The people of 1860 are nothing like the people of 1920 and neither of them bears any resemblance to the people alive today. They were shaped by an environment you literally cannot conceive of today.
ReplyDeleteI was taught in History class that slavery was The Reason for the war. Something that bothered me was the Emancipation Proclamation, January 1, 1863 almost two years after the start of the war, April 12, 1861. Seems like the reason for the war and Emancipation Proclamation, should have been at the beginning, so I started looking for The Reasons for the war. The legislation and economic abuses they didn't teach us about I discovered along with just Thinking for myself left me with zero desire for history class. Here's a thought.
ReplyDeleteIf your wealthy neighbor has twenty slaves,doing his work for him and you have none, why would You go to war? Why risk life and limb Just to come back to the same thing you had before the war? The reason everyone was ready to go fight was because DC was screwing the South.
That is not what they taught us. FWIW, I went to school in Houston and Odessa Texas.
“A Catholic should be governed somewhat by the fact that the Church has always treated slavery as an evil which should be abolished by wise and moderate means…I used to dislike the abolitionists but their folly sinks in significance when compared with the treason of the South.” - Ellen Sherman, wife of Gen. W. T. Sherman
Delete06:29,
DeleteA sixty second search tells me the sherman family -- and his wife -- owned slaves for decades.
Apparently, the other hypocrite intent on the genocide of Southern Folks, general u. grant was also a long-time slave owner.
That was me by the way
ReplyDeleteOur dad served in the 1st ID.(Big Red One). He was under Pattons command in Sicily. He saw him a few times there and later in England as he was making the rounds. Said he cut quit a figure, led from the front. A soldiers soldier.
ReplyDeleteMy uncle was a lifer in the U.S. Army. He fought in both Korea and Vietnam. The only thing that I remember him telling me about Patton was that he was an SOB.
DeleteMy uncle was a communications guy, and only had to actually shoot at the enemy in Korea. He shot a small guy in a quilted vest, with his M1 Carbine from about 100 yards. He said that he saw the vest puff with dust 3 times and the guy kept on coming. He said that eventually the guy fell down, but that was the only time he was actually scared in either Korea or Vietnam.
I have been looking for more information of a family friend when George was 8 or 9 in California, he would go for rides with John Singleton Mosby ... my relative and hero Mosby's Confederacy.
ReplyDelete