So, this is an interesting presentation, even though I didn't watch the entire video. chuckling
At minute 2:24, he starts talking about transformers and gaps in the electrical line. So, his premise is that Inductance is a lie. Hmm, ok. At minute 2:54 he asks why does energy only flow in one direction. Well, maybe because all the flow is to ground. Oops, is that too critical? IDGAF. chuckling
I quit watching after that comment, so maybe he discussses Ohm's Law, also what Cavendish and Ronalds worked on, I don't know. Good thought provoking video, Irish, but to me it goes against several hundred years of history and proven research.
He's not been very clear about the whole concept but what he basically is trying to explain is that electric energy isn't transported through electrons flowing through the wires like water through a pipe, which is basically correct. What he's really made a mess of is explaining the concept of "field", which is really annoyingly difficult to illustrate into something intuitive. He got some push-back for this video so he made a follow-up one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_X2cMHNe0) with an experiment illustrating his point, which was pretty interesting...
Current / power capacity of wire is a function of the cross sectional area of the wire. Period. Fields are a consequence of the energy flow, not the cause of the flow in a single conductor.
If a changing field cuts across another conductor, its a parasitic. You have an energy loss to the other conductor. It can be a parasitic, or we call them transformers. Yes, you can determine the energy flow by measuring the fields, and you can pull energy from the fields (transformer), but thats a hell of a leap to throw away ampacity characteristics of wire and why. Pro -tip -- strnaded wire doesn't carry more energy than solid for all you skin effect fans out there.....
I know where you're coming from, Grog. KVL and KCL still continue to work, no matter what the video says. Electrons still continue to flow. Ohm's Law still works as advertised. What happens in the wire STAYS in the wire!
Humph. The way I was taught, electricity flows more along the surface of wires, the "skin effect".The higher the frequency, the more on the surface the electricity flows. The lower the frequency, the more it "penetrates" (though not much).Don't remember the numbers, but surprisingly it wasn't much.
That's somewhat correct - the skin effect I mean - but it's not really electrons "flowing" through the surface of the conductor, but rather the electric field density is higher near the surface of the conductor.
Argued with a GS 12 back in '72 about how a transistor works, was told by my Commander to shut up because he was a GS 12 and I was an Airman one-striper. Transistor still works by hole flow, no matter WHAT the "teacher" says. After that little dust-up I had all the guys in my flight come to me in the evenings to explain exactly what was going on and help them with the concepts. I'm no genius, just had been working with tubes since 1967 and transistors since 1970 and knew my way around a circuit or two.
Remember, there's the right way, the wrong way, and the Military way.
I would love to see his explanation of how the saw doesn't work correctly when your 100ft extension cable is only uncoiled a couple of feet. But works perfectly 100ft away.
We can't know. We only have two different theories that work pretty well one place or another. One is fields and the other is quanta. For electrical power, fields work and quantum theory is pointless. For tubes and transistors, quantum theory works.
Well, IDK about Energy Doesn't flow in wires. I dunno exactly What was In that wire, but when I touched it, some of it leaked on me. Now, IDK if that's Energy or what, but it Felt damned energetic.
Yes, not electrons per se. They move slow even at DC, and they don't even make their way through devices such as transformers. The energy is carried in the combination of electric and magnetic fields. People working with radio and high frequency equipment knows this fairly well, as this explains how energy moves between transmitter and antenna. If the antenna isn't matched, there will be reflected waves, moving energy in the wrong direction, and a lot of effort is spent on avoiding or minimizing these.
It is far less obvious at mains frequencies and at DC, but the same concept works there.
All I can say after watching the video is that I felt like Ralphie from a Christmas Story. I invested all of my time only to find out at the end that is was a crummy commercial. Instead of OVALTINE, it was LUTRON.
That excites me to a higher level! One atom said to another, I think I lost an electron. The second atom said, are you sure? The first atom said I'm positive!
Got boring, quit watching, no longer give a damn as long as the light/appliance comes on. When it don't I will go to manual or better known as manwell labor to create light and or energy same as they did hundreds of years ago and now coming soon to a location near you.
"Battery" electricity (DC) does flow through wires. As frequency increases, the electricity tends to move to the outer edge. At 60Hz, the electricity mostly stays within about the first 3/4" of the wire - At radio frequencies, then yes, you can think of electricity traveling on the surface of the wire. Electrons can be said to move slow but slow is relative. They move a lot faster than you can pull away. Enough of it will zap you no matter where it travels on the wire. 40+year EE
I once watched someone slap a live wire carrying 1000+ amps in the main entrance breaker panel feeding an entire radio and telecom center with a screwdriver. Ever seen a 12 inch screwdriver vaporize instantly down to the insulated handle? Pretty loud kaboom and nice arc flash. Nice vacuum effect pulling the screwdriver inwards also. Pretty sure he peed pants and dumped a load after that experience. Clearly there are more than a few electrons moving in conductors.
A guy 8 feet away from me shorted out a Motor-Generator battery set, 32-36VDC at 50,000 amps. The 3/4" extension bar turned into plasma and we were digging copper and chrome sputter out of our uniforms, hands, faces, etc. One of the more exciting days in the Air Force. The guy that "crowbar-ed" the buss had second degree burns on his hands, even though it took a good half-second to melt and vaporize and he was yanking the ratchet/extension bar/socket away as fast as he could. He lost the race.
So, this is an interesting presentation, even though I didn't watch the entire video. chuckling
ReplyDeleteAt minute 2:24, he starts talking about transformers and gaps in the electrical line. So, his premise is that Inductance is a lie. Hmm, ok. At minute 2:54 he asks why does energy only flow in one direction. Well, maybe because all the flow is to ground. Oops, is that too critical? IDGAF. chuckling
I quit watching after that comment, so maybe he discussses Ohm's Law, also what Cavendish and Ronalds worked on, I don't know. Good thought provoking video, Irish, but to me it goes against several hundred years of history and proven research.
He's not been very clear about the whole concept but what he basically is trying to explain is that electric energy isn't transported through electrons flowing through the wires like water through a pipe, which is basically correct.
DeleteWhat he's really made a mess of is explaining the concept of "field", which is really annoyingly difficult to illustrate into something intuitive. He got some push-back for this video so he made a follow-up one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_X2cMHNe0) with an experiment illustrating his point, which was pretty interesting...
Current / power capacity of wire is a function of the cross sectional area of the wire. Period. Fields are a consequence of the energy flow, not the cause of the flow in a single conductor.
DeleteIf a changing field cuts across another conductor, its a parasitic. You have an energy loss to the other conductor. It can be a parasitic, or we call them transformers. Yes, you can determine the energy flow by measuring the fields, and you can pull energy from the fields (transformer), but thats a hell of a leap to throw away ampacity characteristics of wire and why. Pro -tip -- strnaded wire doesn't carry more energy than solid for all you skin effect fans out there.....
I know where you're coming from, Grog. KVL and KCL still continue to work, no matter what the video says. Electrons still continue to flow. Ohm's Law still works as advertised. What happens in the wire STAYS in the wire!
DeleteThat was awesome, thanks.
ReplyDeleteThank you, I never took any courses in this (Econ Major), but found this fascinating (Scoutergreg)
ReplyDeleteGrog Groks it!
ReplyDeleteI will consider that as high praise, Drjim, as your knowledge is far more extensive than mine, thank you.
DeleteHumph. The way I was taught, electricity flows more along the surface of wires, the "skin effect".The higher the frequency, the more on the surface the electricity flows. The lower the frequency, the more it "penetrates" (though not much).Don't remember the numbers, but surprisingly it wasn't much.
ReplyDeletePresident Elect B Woodman
That's somewhat correct - the skin effect I mean - but it's not really electrons "flowing" through the surface of the conductor, but rather the electric field density is higher near the surface of the conductor.
DeleteLearned this in USAF tech school at Chanute AFB, IL a long, long time ago.
ReplyDeleteArgued with a GS 12 back in '72 about how a transistor works, was told by my Commander to shut up because he was a GS 12 and I was an Airman one-striper. Transistor still works by hole flow, no matter WHAT the "teacher" says. After that little dust-up I had all the guys in my flight come to me in the evenings to explain exactly what was going on and help them with the concepts. I'm no genius, just had been working with tubes since 1967 and transistors since 1970 and knew my way around a circuit or two.
DeleteRemember, there's the right way, the wrong way, and the Military way.
I would love to see his explanation of how the saw doesn't work correctly when your 100ft extension cable is only uncoiled a couple of feet. But works perfectly 100ft away.
ReplyDeleteWe can't know. We only have two different theories that work pretty well one place or another. One is fields and the other is quanta. For electrical power, fields work and quantum theory is pointless.
ReplyDeleteFor tubes and transistors, quantum theory works.
Well, I think that Richard Feynman wouldn't agree with you since his theory of quantum electrodynamics explained electromagnetism at quantum level...
DeleteWell, IDK about Energy Doesn't flow in wires. I dunno exactly What was In that wire, but when I touched it, some of it leaked on me. Now, IDK if that's Energy or what, but it Felt damned energetic.
ReplyDeleteIt's smoke, I've seen it leak out many times, usually from old British Cars.
DeleteALL electric system work on smoke. The moment smoke goes out of the system it stops working - logically :-)
DeleteYes, not electrons per se. They move slow even at DC, and they don't even make their way through devices such as transformers. The energy is carried in the combination of electric and magnetic fields. People working with radio and high frequency equipment knows this fairly well, as this explains how energy moves between transmitter and antenna. If the antenna isn't matched, there will be reflected waves, moving energy in the wrong direction, and a lot of effort is spent on avoiding or minimizing these.
ReplyDeleteIt is far less obvious at mains frequencies and at DC, but the same concept works there.
All I can say after watching the video is that I felt like Ralphie from a Christmas Story. I invested all of my time only to find out at the end that is was a crummy commercial. Instead of OVALTINE, it was LUTRON.
ReplyDeleteThat excites me to a higher level! One atom said to another, I think I lost an electron. The second atom said, are you sure? The first atom said I'm positive!
ReplyDeleteGot boring, quit watching, no longer give a damn as long as the light/appliance comes on. When it don't I will go to manual or better known as manwell labor to create light and or energy same as they did hundreds of years ago and now coming soon to a location near you.
ReplyDeleteps It's not in the wires, it's on the surface of the wires.
ReplyDelete"Battery" electricity (DC) does flow through wires. As frequency increases, the electricity tends to move to the outer edge. At 60Hz, the electricity mostly stays within about the first 3/4" of the wire - At radio frequencies, then yes, you can think of electricity traveling on the surface of the wire. Electrons can be said to move slow but slow is relative. They move a lot faster than you can pull away. Enough of it will zap you no matter where it travels on the wire. 40+year EE
ReplyDeleteI always knew electricity worked on the FM principle..... Fucking Magic.
ReplyDeleteYou win the innerwebz comment of the day anon.
DeleteIrish something interesting. A bit off topic but it is electronic and sadly requires Digital ID (HELLO CHINA SOCIAL SCORE)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/03/federal-reserve-will-launch-fednow-payment-service-in-july/
Create a Problem
Offer THE Solution
And like a electronic python slowly squeezes our freedoms away.
I once watched someone slap a live wire carrying 1000+ amps in the main entrance breaker panel feeding an entire radio and telecom center with a screwdriver. Ever seen a 12 inch screwdriver vaporize instantly down to the insulated handle? Pretty loud kaboom and nice arc flash. Nice vacuum effect pulling the screwdriver inwards also. Pretty sure he peed pants and dumped a load after that experience. Clearly there are more than a few electrons moving in conductors.
ReplyDeleteA guy 8 feet away from me shorted out a Motor-Generator battery set, 32-36VDC at 50,000 amps. The 3/4" extension bar turned into plasma and we were digging copper and chrome sputter out of our uniforms, hands, faces, etc. One of the more exciting days in the Air Force. The guy that "crowbar-ed" the buss had second degree burns on his hands, even though it took a good half-second to melt and vaporize and he was yanking the ratchet/extension bar/socket away as fast as he could. He lost the race.
Deletebuncha bull if ya ask me. slow down the video, real slow, and you can count the electrons jumping across the filament. Milton
ReplyDelete